A Conversation About Charli XCX
Talking about the pop star on everyone's minds this week: Charli XCX!
This week, we have a lovely episode about Beyoncé and her new record, because, well, duh. You can check it out here:
However, if you’re looking for some excellent insights about other pop stars – look no further! Last week, before Charlie and I got wrapped up in Beyoncé discourse, we had a delightful conversation about the other Charli: XCX. We nail down her sound’s sonic descriptors, talk about her imitators, and identify the people you should listen to next. You can read it below:
Charlie: I was at a friend's birthday party the other day and got into a conversation with a writer. Because I'm a conversation hog, the talk turns to pop music. And it turns out she's a huge Charli XCX fan. I am a huge Charli XCX fan. I don't know if you know this about me, but when I produce songs, I release them as CharliTEN. I style it C H A R L I and then T E N capitalized. Just like how the XCX capitalized.
Reanna: Charlis in arms.
Charlie: Exactly. And so this writer asked me, what else should I listen to if I love Charli XCX?
Reanna: Hmm.
Charlie: And I'm like, I got nothing because I feel like she is totally singular. Like, I know that she's described as hyperpop from time to time, right? She also started her career with that one big smash “Boom Clap.” And this is a while ago. I mean, “Boom Clap” was literally featured in our third episode back in 2014, an episode called “boom, bang, pow”!
Reanna: Love.
Charlie: But Charli’s solo material: I feel like I can't describe it. You're the resident Charli scholar and hyperpop aficionado. What makes her singular?
Reanna: I think what makes her singular is that she's kind of the blueprint for all of these other artists. So if you're trying to group other people into her sound, it's not necessarily going to work as effectively, because she's the one that's setting the tone for everybody else.
Her work is hyperpop, but in the like, original definition of hyperpop. There's two schools of hyperpop, or two eras of hyperpop. You have 2010s hyperpop, and then 2020s hyperpop, which is where we are now.
2010’s hyperpop is distinctly pop, first and foremost. You have really great hooks, you have really shiny production, and the ethos of “hyperpop” is kind of like pushing pop music forward towards the future. But at the end of the day, it is pop music.
Charlie: And all of the hyperness is that all of the sounds are extra and over the top. When you listen to the synthesizers and the productions of A. G. Cook and SOPHIE, it's clangorous and loud, almost to the point of being obnoxious drums. There’s synth sounds which are going to explode your speakers.
Reanna: Right.
Charlie: It’s pop to an extreme that it is as pleasurable as it is annoying at the same time.
Reanna: Yeah, and that's the ethos of PC Music, the label that essentially started hyperpop as we know it. “If you took pop music and turned the dial up to 20, what would you hear?” And that's how you get like early hyperpop songs like “Hey QT,” which is just satirizing the commodification of pop music, satirizing the technology of pop music. That's the ethos of that sound.
Charlie: It's almost like what Andy Warhol did to fine arts, making pop art. Hyperpop does that to mainstream popular music.
Reanna: Yes! I think Charli's early music is distinctly pop from the pop machine, but something changes around when she puts out the [experimental pop] Vroom Vroom EP. That is where we see a shift in her discography and her sound. But because she has that pop background, not that experimental music background, not that production background, it's inherently pop. Just, you know, kind of elevated to that almost academic level of understanding.
Charlie: So what I'm hearing is she's blurring mainstream pop as in writing very digestible music, party music. Not pop as fine art, not pop as a fine wine, but two buck Chuck. (We're not knocking two buck Chuck. It's probably one of the best wines in the world.) But then when she goes and she starts collaborating with these hyper pop producers –
Reanna: When she puts out Vroom Vroom, there’s that distinct shift from the music of her previous records like Sucker into these hyperpop sounds. Because on Vroom Vroom, she's collaborating with SOPHIE, she's collaborating with hyperpop pioneers like Hannah Diamond; she's collaborating with these people that are pushing pop in this other direction, and I think that is the pivotal shift in her career when she starts thinking, oh wow, like, “pop could be more conceptual than just hooks.”
Charlie: Okay, here's the thing, I understand there's a lot of people who are associated in this world of hyperpop at the early stage. But I don't feel like there's anyone that sounds like Charli XCX, even from that era. What do you think makes her music in this moment so uniquely hers? What are the words you put together?
Reanna: I'd say her stuff is pop forward. Singable hooks. But her music feels like it's pushing boundaries while also sticking to the familiar. It’s not as abrasive as, say, A. G. Cook's solo work or other people who are her contemporaries, but it's familiar.
You listen to something on Pop 2 – Pop 2 is maybe the most forward thinking pop album of the last decade – and what makes it so successful is that it is hooky. You can sing it and you can know it intimately from a casual listener’s perspective while also appreciating all the conceptual work into the analysis and understanding of pop music that backs it up.
She embodies as a pop star this kind of bridge between artists that we already know like Madonna, Lady Gaga, and Janet Jackson, and this new era of pop star. We already see people copying her! Camila's new single is a Charlie dupe. And it’s interesting to see people are already copying Charli XCX in her prime.
Charlie: When I think about why I love her music, it’s that her attitude is so confident and in-your-face. And oftentimes silly and fun.
It borders this line of fine art and commentary with just stupid party music. It crosses the line of high art and commerce. To stick with the art metaphor, it reminds me of Barbara Kruger's work: bold, strong, as much in the art world as the world of commentary on the world of commerce.
Reanna: Provocative, in a way.
Charlie: And also, immediately recognizable. To the degree that when the skateboard brand Supreme launches, you're like, “that's Barbara Kruger's work.”
Reanna: I think that's an apt comparison, though, because I feel like Charli occupies a similar space where her music is really recognizable, but still manages to be transgressive.
And that’s why putting her next to her contemporaries, their sounds don't really sync up, because somebody like Caroline Polachek, who people associate with Charli a lot due to their collaborations and similar circles, they're operating in totally different art practices.
Charli's work is so unique because it's like futuristic pop that, at the end of the day, is designed to be consumed.
Charlie: Okay, so here's the problem. Even though she's got a new record coming out in a few months, and her discography is great, you're going to run out of her music. And people want more, and the writer that I spoke with, wants more of Charli-like music. Where should one go?
I tried to poll some of our listeners. I heard names like Slayyyter, Natalia Kills, Rina Sawayama, 100 Gecs, Empress Of – who by the way sent Switched on Pop a box of chocolates, which is the nicest thing an artist has ever done – Betty Who, Rebecca Black, and my favorite recommendation, Charli MMM. I don't think that's a real artist.
I'm sure some of these are really worth listening to, and I know a handful of these artists, but do you have any specific recommendations that really sort of capture the vibe of Charli?
Reanna: Well, it's interesting because I mentioned the two different schools of hyperpop, right?
Where you have the pop forward hyperpop of the 2010s, and then you have the 2020s heavily abstracted version of hyperpop that some of those acts, like 100 gecs or Food House, belong to. What makes Charli is her pop sensibilities. So for that, I would second Slayyyter. She's also doing pop by the way of 2000’s Britney Spears. I would recommend early Kim Petras, her early singles. Those are really good distillations of pop music.
I'd recommend somebody like RYL0 who, aside from being a friend of mine, embodies the Charli XCX ethos of futuristic pop. And I think RYL0 is part of the Charli school of artistry, where you have artists like That Kid, Slayyyter, even Addison Rae, the latter you can even hear on the “Von dutch” remix.
Most of the pop girls that are coming out recently, I think it's very easy to see them being influenced by Charli. I don't really know any other artist who's had such a distinct and immediate impact, despite being semi-popular.
Charlie: Right. She hasn't had a huge chart success, but is very respected and collaborated with.
Reanna: Exactly. And her contemporaries – artists like Tove Lo, Rina Sawayama, and Caroline Polachek – are these artists who are doing their own spins on pop music. Rina Sawayama is looking at metal and pop and how they intertwine, Caroline Polachek is doing new age stuff in pop. Charli is kind of doing… how do I say this…
Charlie: Pop on pop.
Reanna: Exactly! I was trying to figure out a way to explain it, but that's exactly it. It's pop on pop. It’s conceptual, but at the end of the day is distinctly pop. Pop music. That’s what I love about her.
Charlie: So then the answer is just to listen to Charli.
Reanna: Just listen to Charli XCX.
Charlie: Go get a PhD in all of her mixtapes because they bear relistening.
Reanna: PhD in XCX.